tv Bulls and Bears FOX News June 22, 2013 7:00am-7:31am PDT
here all morning and they make camp sunshine for kids possible. they give a huge grant. you can find tropical smoothie on twitter if you want to find more. >> speaking of grants -- >> very good. glad that's over. stocks shocked. starting on on wednesday as the fed chief hinted the bank may take its foot off the stimulus pedal. and then reports hit that may happen sooner rather than later. we saw a bit of a recovery on friday, but nerves are frayed. should you be worrying about your money? the bulls and bears are here to help. hi, everyone. let's let's gets right to it. welcome to everybody. okay. john, a wild week. what does it mean to our you viewers? >> what i think this means to our viewers is they should be
very concerned going into monday morning. we've had will an enormous run up over the last few month, even the last year. and people have a lot of profits on the table. what we're seeing right now is a lot of the artificial stimulation the market has gotten by ben bernanke's policies, it's starting to come to roost. and our fund feels like the stock market right now has a correction in mind somewhere in the 5% to 7% range over the next quarter. i could look for somewhere in the course of this week about 1,000 points to the down side. if i was a retail investor, i had some profits, i would go into monday morning thinking let me take some profits off the table, if the bubble starts to burst, there will be great opportunities down the line. but the prevailing opinion is always sell it in may and go away. we're in june. if you haven't sold yet, i'd be selling monday. >> 1,000 points. gary, are you buying or selling? >> well, first of all, john just scared the heck out of me. so i don't think -- well, okay.
i agree with him in part of it. do i think there is more down side. i don't think it's going to be another 1,000 points down. that would take us below dow 14,000. i think that's probably a pretty safe stopping ground. in direct answer to your question, yes, i started buying late thursday. i started buying a little on friday. if stocks drop a little bit more, i will buy a little bit more. just to on put it in perspective, i'm probably about 70% invested. so i'd actually like to see a little bit more down side in order to buy more. overall am i worried, as pessimistic as john, no, i think this is a temporary pull back and probably more a good buying opportunity than anything else. >> john, the market has gone very far very fast. isn't it time for the bulls to take a breather? i mean, the dow is up 13% so far this year. >> sure. look what happened in japan. you had them almost straight up
and they have come significantly off their highs. this market was about 12,500 a year ago. just short of 15,000 right now. so i think it's normal that anytime you have any perception of bad new, people start taking money off the table. but i agree with gary that this is a buying opportunity if we go much lower here because bernanke said that he won't raise rates until employment gets down to 6.5% and once you start seeing the economy get better, more people going in the workforce, it will take a while before they raise rates. >> but this has been a bond buying binge. if it stops, if the fed pulls back, isn't that a sign that the economy is improving and isn't that good for the market? >> brenda, i think you're absolutely right and it's a return that we can rely on. the fundamentals of the economy, you have the jobless rate being reduced, you have housing up and
you have corporate profits an all time high. so i think it was an indication by bernanke that we are seeing these indicators and these good forecasts and that please look at this because we may -- if we hit 7% unemployment, we may start ultimate putting on the brakes as it relates to easy money, if you will. >> john, is this a bubble about to burst? are we about to see what happens to the housing market? >> no i think what happened is a bubble was starting to form because of the low rates. the market was getting ahead of the real economy which is still a little lackluster in a lot of areas especially employment. and what the federal government wants to do is keep encouraging growth in the economy, yet stop an asset bubble forming like we had in real estate in the 2000s. so maybe keep the heat on so you don't have to pull the stimulus away. you don't want to have to start
raising rates everywhere and cause a recession for no reason. so it's a hard to play game. but that was the strategy. and in general, want to be in an economy where we don't have to have the federal reserve creating money to buy debt. that's not a natural state of things or healthy in the long run. >> but, john, what do you say to that? >> to david's point, i don't see any of the fundamentals he's referring to in the market 34r5i place. i see stagnation in gdp, i see continued deterioration in u-6, i see capacity utilization, underemploymented, part-time employment up. so i don't see any of those good fundamentals. and what i do see is ben bernanke's policies are like bernie madoff and alan stanford on steroids. they have been artificially stimulating the marketplace because when people get fewer return on their bank account, they're forced to take some risk and get return in the marketplace. so he's forced people into the markets and that bubble is
existing, that bubble is getting bigger. and i think i know everyone thinks i'm a little pessimistic, but -- >> okay. all right. a little. >> 2.8 million jobs over the last 37 months. it that is a fundamental fact that we need to address. and that was addressed by bernanke in his speech on wednesday. >> well, gary, do you agree that the economy is on solid fatting? >> i think it's kind of mushy. let's put it that way. i think the only number that we need to know, john identified it, that bernanke's not going to take the foot off the accelerator until unemployment is 6.5%. now, we all know, i think everyone here, that under the current administration, we're never going to see 6.5% unemployment. so party on until 2016. >> but rates have gone up. if we see interest rates go up,
what does that do to the market and it to the economy? >> that's your real danger. a few weeks al ago, 1.6% on a government bond and now 2.5%. who cares. you try to get a mortgage six to eight weeks ago, you could you have gotten it at 3%. now it's pushing 4%. that's a big difference in how you value a home. so this is the market behaving. this isn't the federal reserve. that's bigger than the federal reserve. if it continues and we go to another percent up rapidly, you're going to see housing prices start to go down again and the recovery ending 37 so we don't want to go too far. but i do think a little was good because it was taking the heat off the stock markets. and we don't want artificially low rates, but they deserve rates at about today's level. >> john mayfield, does that worry you, the housing market is one of the few positives in the economy right now. >> yeah, but i don't think rates will go up significantly for a matter of time. you understand to dave's point that 8% was the benchmark
brought up by the administration. give us this free money, we'll never go above 8%. that proved not very right. what you have is a structural unemployment issue. you could leave rates at zero forever, the market rebounding would help that. bernanke was 100% wrong on trying to deal with something that is auis structural issue. shale gas will do better than ben bernanke will do. >> that has to be the last word. we're just learning the health care law is $2 billion short. should taxpayers have to cough up even more? change makes people nervous.
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security agency contractor who says he leaked documents about secret government surveillance programs. he is believed to be in hong kong where some legislators say the chinese government should make the final decision about whether to extradite him to the u.s.. the 10-year-old pennsylvania girl who underwent a double lung transplant after the national debate is now awake. a family spokesperson says sarah murnaghan a woke from a coma friday and is communicating by nodding. she underwent the operation after a judge allowed her to be put on the adult donor's list. we take you back now to on bulls and bears. support for the health care law plummeting. now only about one in three americans are for it. and no wonder. the government is saying those health care exchanges probably
won't be ready by the october deadline. and they will need, get this, another $2 billion to get them up and running. gop lawmakers saying no way and they are stepping up efforts to fight the funding. john mayfield says, by the way -- >> absolutely. look, americans are not dumb. in fact they're very smart and that's why most people disagree. we know nothing's free. they pitched it as being free and it would reduce the deficit. we said it wouldn't and now they want more funding for what is this for the irs. the irs, we had three congressional committees investigating it and the justice department. who is going to police them? drones from the president and eric holder? you have to give me a break. nothing is free. we're starting to pay for it. >> but the gop couldn't kill obama care. they couldn't vote it down. is this right to try to starve it by keeping funding away? >> they have tried. no, you have to pay for it. don't like it, get the votes to
kill it, but don't approve something and then -- and the way they're thinking about starving it doesn't even make any sense. we all hate the irs and they waste a lot of money 00 -- >> you've never said it that on the show before. you're worried about the audit. >> no, i love the irs. everybody else doesn't like it. but if you cut a -- look, this health care thing is very complicated and difficult. that's one of its problems. the irs has a key role unfortunately to lay out the fines for people not getting health insurance. that is revenue enhancing. so tounder staff the irs means you won't have the revenue and it will crumble in on something. i know some want that, but i want someone to pay for it. as far as the ratings, about won't get any worse than one out of three because at least one out of three people, this is a gravy train to them. >> gary, take that on. >> i kind of agree with jonas but with a big if.
if anyone had money what was actually in this law, or what the consequences would be, i would say,nd it. we went in with clear eyes. but nancy pelosi says we have to pass to understand what's in it? we're starting to understand what's in it. look, is it a shock to anyone that the government is behind schedule and overbudget? of course not. multiply that ten-fold with the bottom line costs. we know from the cbo it will cost jobs. we know from case studies in states and other on countries that access to medical care will be limited. we've already seen the preliminary numbers that we're still going to have a wide, wide group of people uncovered. and by the way, if you are healthy, you'll be paying higher premiums. so, yeah, i would say right now we are starting to see the back trickle in. cut our losses. >> that was a big if. okay. david, what do you say? >> i say you find what is now the law of the land and scott
being obstructionist on to getting out the information as to what the bill does. >> right. >> let's take the 6 million young adults that now remain on their parents' health care plan that otherwise would not have been. or those that have pre-existing conditions that would be denied health care coverage. that has changed. and i think the more that people come to realize that as well as the implementation of the law come january 2014, that you will see those numbers change especially with no more attempts at repealing health care which i think the gop house has tried 34 times to do to no avail. >> john, is this such a mess that we should just pull the money out? >> without a doubt. we have this novel concept in the private sector that you put a proposal on the table, you put a use of proceeds on the table, you say how much something is supposed to cost, and then if the funding that was proposed is
there and then you need more, you kind of pull back. if someone came to me and said invest in my company $2 billion and then six months later come back and say we made a mistake, we now need $4 billion, i'd cut off the funding immediately, think i made a mistake and cut my losses. and i think what we need to do is now maybe in the first place some of our congressional leaders should have read the bill to gary's point. but what i think we need to do is the thing is fat. the thing is overweight. let's starve it. and if starving it kills it, i think most of america will be happy. >> you're trying to kill it before it even gets started. >> fantastic. >> better now than later. >> okay, guys. got to be the last word. did you hear this? the nsa snooping mess is exactly why we need more government union workers? a new push from big labor that may give you labor pains.
that's at the bottom of the hour. but first, get ready to get ticked off from this plan. lawmakers paying off their staff student loans with our tax dollars. come on! and for you naysayer, i have two strong words for you. come on! woman: everyone in the nicu -- all the nurses wanted to watch him when he was there 118 days. everything that you thought was important to you changes in light of having a child that needs you every moment.
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for their staff college debt, 21 million bucks last year alone. and guess who is paying for it? you. gary, is this fair? >> it's not fair to anyone. i don't understand it. look, government service is a career choice. and if you think it's easy to get a job in government, you should try to come to washington, d.c.. these jobs here at every level, even if they're unpaid swern ships, are highly coveted. why? because when compared with the private sector, they're working less hours and paid more if you include health care and all those other benefits. if we had trouble attracting people to d.c. to work this government, i'd say, yeah, we need to increase the benefits. we don't. it's the on that sits. we have more than enough supply out there to meet the demand. and the taxpayer should not be on the hook for one who amore benefit. >> that's the basic argument for paying off these loans is to attract good talent. >> and i think -- and i understand that and i can see
why this would be part of their benefit package, if you will. a legislative assistant making $23,000 a year is having a tough time of it. and is working long hours contrary to what was just said. >> but there's a long line of people around the block if that job. >> in addition, i think it is used to attract talent and keep talent. but in the same instance, i think congressional members need to to not just deal with their staffer, but with students around the country whose loans are now at $1 trillion and having increased so much. 440%off the last 25 years. something has to be done about that. >> and john, what's really increased is if you look not just at congress, but all government workers, and take a look at how the student loan payoff plan has grown, look at that, $3 million to $72 million?
>> bren today, whda, those numbe sick. i think about all the people that are out of work right now and we have the largest government probably in the world right now saying we need to incentivize people to come work for us. right now we're in the middle of an employment epidemic. and to gary's point, if someone in the government put any federal job in the newspaper and said this job is available at $23,000, there would be a line down 6th avenue like you couldn't believe. the plan came around in 2002 when the private sector was doing fantastic, so the government wanted a little boost. now the good talent is all unemployed. we don't need to spend $70 million a year to get the good talent into the government. we need to give the private sector some incentives. >> jonathan, what do you think of the program? >> that's exactly it, there is more demand now than there was for the government job as few years ago. you can't badmouth it. the private sector does this,
also. i think the real crisis isn't that the concept exist, it just appears to be disproportionately used by congressional staffers and other federal workers because of -- i don't know why. that's suspicious. but the concept in general -- and those are the most in demand jobs because they want to get over careers in politics. >> i have to get john in there. what do you think? >> in 2002, we needed extra incentives. we don't need it anymore. and now it has become a political grab bag. everybody is sticking their fingers in it. even those who disagree are using it for their own staffers. i believe it needs to be shut off. >> that's the last word. thanks, guys. and thanks to david for joining us. appreciate it. forget the nsa. your tv may soon be watching you when you're watching it. but before you tune out, find out how you can profit from that.
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prediction. take it away. >> i'm going to pick a stock that was kind of batter this had past would he be and that's the good old red and white there, coca-cola. i think it's back to old highs by labor day. >> bull or bear? >> overpriced. >> john, your prediction. >> sirius satellite announces a deal to put internet in every ford car. i see serious upside in sirius up 20% by the year end. >> john, bull or bear? >> i'm a bear on stocks. >> okay. jonas. >> if the nsa bugs you you, we found out the cable box will watch what you do. that is right, you will see ads for dandruff shampoo. >> they're watching you. gary. >> i like verizon after it drops
another 10%. >> john, quickly. >> facebook finds a way on monetize. video will help them. >> bull or bear? >> too much of a run up. i'm a bear. never let a scandal go to waste. and when it comes to the nsa, don't do millions know it. hello, everyone. this guy is proof we need more government workers. according to a new report, they're ready for a new fight against hiring outside contractors while pushing for are more federal workers and security jobs. that have you feeling a little insecure? gary, what do you think? >> there is no proof that contractors do a bad job for us with our security. this is an outlier event, one that should be arrested. i do